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**Tokot** · 07-11-2005, 12:30

well, looks like noone considers that is possible to respond to a simply one of the players...
One russian humorist said: "They make the rules, they play with these rules and they change the rules during the game until they win" very similiar to our case, isn't it?
who is initiator of this action-provocation, please, show me the rule that prohibits what was done and why is the punishment for this "indeterminada" jail.
Thank You.
P.S. On my previous shard it was prohibited for staff to give anything to a player, to take anything from player, to help player etc. they could only fix bugs and punish for using known and described unfixable bugs. waiting for reply from staff.

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 14:22

Hi there - sorry I haven't responded quicker, but I have been away for the last couple of days and not used my computer much. Ok you said you were jailed along with many other people for an "exploit". I will just let you know what this means. In the rules of UO Dreams - theres a list of stuff that you can and can't do. Exploiting a bug in UO Dreams is direct contravention of these rules and the only option for staff is to ban/jail depending on how severe the case is. Believe me, we wouldn't just ban you/jail you for no reason. You would have been observed doing this act and the logs would have been checked to see how long you had been doing this.

Now - exploiting a bug means that you use the game mechanics to make/gain from this bug.

Please feel free to post the details of what happened as I am more than happy to comment on this once I have all the facts - at the moment I haven't spoken to anybody else and I don't know 100% whats going on. But I will post more once I have the relevant knowledge.

Please take a look at the following link:
http://www.uodreams.com/?t=Regolamento

The relevant rule is number 11 - as far as I can tell, as there was a lot of people banned, then there must have been a lot of communication between players of this bug/loophole - which makes the this all the more severe.

**Tokot** · 07-11-2005, 15:03

Yeah, thanks, i read these rules two times before and 8 times after being jailed.
What happened - on your shard faction taxes inflicts not only buying prices from npc vendors, but selling them too. so it is negative difference in cost of same thing in towns with different taxes. there is regulating system that reduces this difference by 1gp for every 1000 items bought and 1 gp for 1000 items sold. for leather and arrows that works well, but for several expensive items difference is so big that you can earn billions just buying and selling the same thing. is this a bug? maybe, but it is not player fault that your scripters didn't fix it. Moreover, as I said, one GM said that it was not so at the beginning of the shard. did you make it by yourself and for yourself?
about the rules - rule 11 says:
It is prohibited to take advantage of, or abuse, any type of bug, exploit or loophole in the game mechanics which allows profit or unfair advantage over other players.
Tell me where i got "unfair advantage OVER OTHER PLAYERS"? anyone could do this, moreover did it, where is advantage?
an example: i did not use bandages during the PvP fight. is it advantage for my opponent? Of course. Is it unfair advantage? no, cause i could use bandages and didnt use because of my will.
The same case - everybody could do it, but not everybody did. Advantage? Yes. Unfair advantage? No.
another example: beating down barracoon from unreachable for him place. It is using a game "loophole", but not against "other players" so its allowed.
Moral: I didnt take "unfair advantage" over anybody. Looking the logs look at my conversation with GMs in jail where he (or she) says that it was known bug, but they didnt fix it. I know at least 2 ways to fix this "bug" without revoking faction infliction on prices, and its 1 string change to fix.

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 15:50

Originally posted by Tokot
... is this a bug? maybe, but it is not player fault that your scripters didn't fix it.

Tell me where i got "unfair advantage OVER OTHER PLAYERS"? anyone could do this, moreover did it, where is advantage?

I understand your annoyance - but keeping to the rules, your unfair advantage is the money you earned. Obviously if you didn't do the selling and buying, then you wouldn't have the cash and you would be the same as all the other players - earning your cash in the same way. Obviously its a bug - if everyone was able to earn "billions" from doing this then the economy would drop from the shard and everything would become very unrealistic. To go with what you said - you admit its a bug, but you say its not your fault that you exploited it? Its like real life - you can steal 10k from a bank, or you can earn it by working. Using your argument, what you are saying is that you have the right to steal from the bank the money as its there for you to do so - its not your fault the bank has a bad security system! Didn't it cross your mind that this was a bad idea when you were making your money? In the rules it clearly states that if you find a bug like this - then report it immediately. In your case you milked it for all the cash you could, along with your friends. So not only did you break a rule by doing this, because more people did it too, the problem became a much larger one by the communication to others of the bug.

**eyal12** · 07-11-2005, 15:59

its not even a real bug lol , check other shards every shard got this so called "bug" its just how buy/sell system works in runuo , also you think its not possible even now?.. place ore vendors buy ore sell ingots , that's not a bug thats just knowing how to play and how to gain "Easy" money in osi its also allowed and that's why faction is actully any good beside getting that stat lose when you die that's the whole point of factions .

also if the staff knew about the "bug" so long why didn't they just fix it?...

the fact is you can allways gain such gold just like you can afk macro ev on a monster and run a script , gold in uo aos is too easy and thats a fact that's why none sells good items for gold since its not that hard to get and all it takes is some afk hours or knowing how to get it that's about it.

what staff did seems unfair.

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 16:15

I think the whole point we are all missing here is this - if the person who discovered this had reported it as a bug, then the staff would have informed them that it is or isn't a bug. This way everything would have been clear and nobody would have been jailed for making cash out of it and we wouldn't be posting to this thread. Seek clarity on a subject, because the rules state this is what you must do - if any of the people jailed would have done this - then they would have found out its illegal here and then everyone is aware of the situation. Instead, peoples friends were informed, all of these people exploited this problem and now everyone involved is in jail.

Quid pro quo.

**Tokot** · 07-11-2005, 16:23

i got your idea, ill try to explain my again:
in real life is Law, like these rules. the difference is in that law descrubes bank robbery and describes punishment for it. here the rules do not prohibit earning money. In any way.
lets try to describe the correct rule:
1) for example i buy leather, craft leather gorgets and sell it. is it bug? no. do i gain money? yes.
im using special skill for that - tailoring - I agree
Gardening - growing plants and selling seeds and plants - i earn money without using special skill, lets jail all gardners...
2) going ahead - i buy Bolts of cloths, cut it into bandages and sell to healers - its different types of items i am buying and selling, is it a bug exploit?
and, finally 3) i buy and sell the same item - in your description it is bug usage, is that all difference? so can i add 3 strings in my script and continue selling bandages? or i should add 1 Sub to it and continue selling tunics or gorgets? i dont see difference between this cases, just a little scripting.
actually i earned this 22 millions while testing my script, and the result that it worked properly was much more important for me than just virtual money. I, as a newbie scripter with 2 months experience, found on your shard a laaaaarge field of scripts to be written first time, not copying others.
About our shard economics crash - people were doing this and many other things even before my arrival - visit marketplace forum. where do you think man can earn 100kk for doom artifact? looting Hiryues? easy to count it would take him monthes around-a-clock looting to get it. economics destabilized already and i have no goal to crash it. im looking for new ideas for my scripts and to observe the rules as they are our law.

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 16:42

What we shall do with large guilds which it abused? Such as AoT old and so on..?
Probably many months. Probably all changes in the prices owing to them. Probably they have spent already billions gold pieces owned in that way.
It work's only if fractions change prices.. we're not in fractions but they are..
as russian proverb says - not caught not a thief?
Here i see unfair advantage..
There is a question how many they have earned how many have "washed"
All their money are in chests. chests in houses. houses all over the world

so what the fuck ? we're newcomers and can't do that is allowed to old players ???
they offer 80kk for jackal.. because all their money have been made afk.. How can i recieve so much...

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 16:44

Taken from UoDreams Rules:

Rule 11
It is prohibited to take advantage of, or abuse, any type of bug, exploit or loophole in the game mechanics which allows profit or unfair advantage over other players. It is moreover prohibited to communicate such bugs, exploits or loopholes to other players either via the game, forum, or any other means. It is obligatory to inform the staff immediately upon discovery of such a bug, exploit or loophole.

Ok - I take it then by what you are saying that you informed the staff and told you it was ok to carry on making money in this way?

Its not like a profession like a tailor where you kill sheep, process the wool, cut the cloth, make clothes and sell them to a vendor. This is normal game play and its what you do (If you want). What you stand accused of is making money by using a loophole (Bug) in game. Read stratics, read their professions - in no place whatsoever in there is a profession for the person who buys from a shop and sells to another and loops a macro to keep doing this day and night with their friends banking all the cash. Now I must say its tempting to diverge more into this subject, but we are breaking away from the cold truth. If any of you would have reported this and asked if it is legal like the rules state "It is obligatory to inform the staff immediately upon discovery of such a bug, exploit or loophole." Then I doubt any of you would have been in trouble because the staff would have come to the same conclusion as they did when they caught you all and informed you not to make money this way. The cold hard truth is - you did the crime, now you do the time.

**eyal12** · 07-11-2005, 16:52

ill tell you how to make that ammount of cash , buy ore sell ingots and you can get 10kk an hour i caculated it
its not that hard to make such a script with fire beetle
and that you can even do in osi

all the illegal "bug" bullshit is a joke that's how the game worked they made the influcion and they changed it to those prices knowing how they work and now they complain people made scripts for it?

they said themselfs that they knew about it a long time ago.

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 17:09

i know how to make money -)
jail is not decision of a problem

i don't understand why "bug" is not fixed if they knew about it
and how they supervise players wich put money in chests.
so.. keep your money in chests not in the bank. ^^

**Tokot** · 07-11-2005, 17:16

I can offer you new UoD Rules, youre following them much more than nowadays Rules.
1*. Everything, that staff considered, considers or will consider illegal is a crime.
2. Any crime will be punished the way staff considers enough for that crime.
3. Any objections or discussions of this rules are considered crimes too and see rule 2 for details.

*edited a bit from first post

**Ospite** · 07-11-2005, 17:41

Originally posted by Tokot
I can offer you new UoD Rules, youre following them much more than nowadays Rules.
1*. Everything, that staff considered, considers or will consider illegal is a crime.
2. Any crime will be punished the way staff considers enough for that crime.
3. Any objections or discussions of this rules are considered crimes too and see rule 2 for details.

*edited a bit from first post

1. Anything illegal is illegal - don't matter if you say it is or isn't, you're not staff and rules are rules. Staff decides what is illegal and you must read the rules first before you comment. The rules are for the benefit of us all and are not just there to quote when in an argument about injustices etc.

2. Did you get banned? You got jailed which is less severe.

3. I did not say it was a crime to speak about this - I have tried amicably to discuss this and to help you understand what rules you have broken, but you still come back for more and I am starting to not like the tone you are taking with this whole thing.

I am more than happy to speak to you - but I am staff and I too follow the rules. The rules are in place and must be obeyed, if you ever need anything clarifying, please page ingame and any one of us will be more than happy to explain to you. But at the end of the day, you broke the rules - you pay the consequences.

At the end of the day - it is a game for us all to enjoy and we like to keep a level playing field for all players.

***ADDED***
And if you see an exploiter at work, then we would hope you page in game and let us know. Everyone helps to make Dreams what it is - and we like to keep everything friendly, fun and enjoyable.

**Keffu** · 07-11-2005, 18:42

UOD Staff did it again -..- Fellas I have had same kinda problems during the whole time what i have played at uod -.- Exept my problem is that I and my 2 friends got banned already once gos of "Multi account" and other shit (bullshit btw) But now I have a new problem

The staff has desided to "Investigate my account(s)" what i have provided.. The funny part here is that My account have been investigatet like 10 times and I have sended a picture of my passport to staff ect.. I have informed about my brothers account several timesand that we play from same ip adress, since we started to play on uod again. I dont know what is the matter with staff again but its starting to piss me off.. Im sorry for your loss I think staff should have just informed to stop using the so called "bug"..
Ps. UOD staff Do you really think that "Alezi" me and "Spede" are same fucking person? How Dum can you be? If its not that then you should tell me what the **** i have done wrong again? And the message "We are investigatin you account(s) what you have provided but during to our privacy policy _YOU_ ARE_ _NOT_ABLE_TO_KNOW_THE_RESULTS_" Wtf am I supposed to do? Ill get information that Im so stupid to make multiaccount after been banned once already and lost all my stuff after Im banned again? I really dont have a clue whats wrong with you again..

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