Bug Throwing Explosion Potions

[rubberDucks]

On UODreams:
Potions count down 3-2-1 explode
You can create a script/macro to throw potions at 2.5-2.6 seconds and chase a mobile target with explode potion.
You cannot outrun a potion here, you can only escape the range of it


On OSI
Potions count down 4-3-2-1 explode.
When you throw a potion it goes on the tile(mobile point) of where the player is not the player. Meaning it is possible to "outrun" the potion. On UODreams the potion follows the player meaning it is not possible to "outrun" the potion.

[TheWhitezone]

interessante... direi di controllare seriamente questa cosa dato che molta gente ci campa e ci gioca sulle pozze explo.

[rubberDucks]

interessante... direi di controllare seriamente questa cosa dato che molta gente ci campa e ci gioca sulle pozze explo.

if staff add the explode pot damage in the other thread and the potion do 60% more dmg on average then game will have serious imbalance if potions dont function they way they are intended.

I like explosion potion but the damage fix cannot exist without the the throwing fix IMO.

[prohunter33]

its quite possible to make a script on OSI to hit 99% of the time on running targets that are in range and dont have blocked vision in anyway. That 1% is due to lag spike since u need a much more exact timing.

While it hits the current mobile's xy coordinates at the point of tossing, the animation is delayed while the actual effects aren't. Meaning on OSI with a perfectly timed exp pot will show the explosion image hit the person tossing the pot but the damage being dealt to the target.

With all of the methods of scripting allowed this minor change wont be an issue for anyone with a ping less then 300.

To sum it up, if the target is in range of the tossing distance anyone with even a small knowledge of editing scripts will be able to still be able to hit with the same % after the change. Im sure a lot of people will agree that something needs to change, or in this case stay the same(current exp pot damage) because 72-108 damage before resists for 100 skill points and an ecru ring investment seems like way to much.

Just to make a quick comparison. a 120 eval, 100 inscribe, 15sdi, 150int FlameStrike as the same maximum damage as a gm alchemist with an ecru ring. If you compare the time it takes the flamestrike does the damage .5 seconds quick but your movement is disabled for 1.5 seconds of that and you can be disrupted at 2 fc.

[rubberDucks]

To sum it up, if the target is in range of the tossing distance anyone with even a small knowledge of editing scripts will be able to still be able to hit with the same % after the change. Im sure a lot of people will agree that something needs to change, or in this case stay the same(current exp pot damage) because 72-108 damage before resists for 100 skill points and an ecru ring investment seems like way to much.

Just to make a quick comparison. a 120 eval, 100 inscribe, 15sdi, 150int FlameStrike as the same maximum damage as a gm alchemist with an ecru ring. If you compare the time it takes the flamestrike does the damage .5 seconds quick but your movement is disabled for 1.5 seconds of that and you can be disrupted at 2 fc.

Complete truth. I have an alchemist mage as my main character and the pot damage is already nice. If the new fix adds more damage then i'm pretty sure 2-3 alchemists could easily explode pot someone to death without the person being able to do anything to counter it.

[ZeroCool_82]

Finally someone discovered this.

Thx Rubberduck i love you.

To sum it up, if the target is in range of the tossing distance anyone with even a small knowledge of editing scripts will be able to still be able to hit with the same % after the change.

I hope explo pot damage formula remain the same...

[ProFF7]

Just to make a quick comparison. a 120 eval, 100 inscribe, 15sdi, 150int FlameStrike as the same maximum damage as a gm alchemist with an ecru ring. If you compare the time it takes the flamestrike does the damage .5 seconds quick but your movement is disabled for 1.5 seconds of that and you can be disrupted at 2 fc.

Do these 100 points enable you to teleport away, spam heal, ressurect people, summon creatures, crossheal others, invis yourself, poison targets, place blocking and paralizing fields, reduce resists of target to 60, recall, gate others, paralize targets, dispel summons, reveal hiders (and on top of all that, do damage) ?

Short answer is NO

100 points in alchemy only give increased damage to pots, 6 stat bonus to str and dex (with bless you get int bonus too, anyway), a few extra points of healing to potions, and other very minor bonuses to potions. In fact, as it is now, even the damage bonuses for explo, conflag, and supernova potions are abysmal compared to OSI

Dont compare the usefulness of skill points of alchemy and magery related skills because it is pointless, specially the way the alchemy skill is working in UODreams now, there is no comparison possible.



Anyway, this forum is for posting bugs and correct things to work similar to OSI, not for personal opinions on how a skill should be balanced or not. If we talk abount unbalances, how unbalanced is to spend 100 points in alchemy and a ecru to often do 10 damage with explo pots? 1 damage with conflags? 8 damage with a supernova potion?

[rubberDucks]

Anyway, this forum is for posting bugs and correct things to work similar to OSI, not for personal opinions on how a skill should be balanced or not. If we talk abount unbalances, how unbalanced is to spend 100 points in alchemy and a ecru to often do 10 damage with explo pots? 1 damage with conflags? 8 damage with a supernova potion?

....because OSI has always made great decisions, just look at how many times they had changed their codes on Alchemy/EP in the past years. Maybe OSI accuracy on a server where scripting is legal isn't the greatest idea.

you'll get an increase in pot dmg and a decrease in fun when any monkey with a script gets a boost in damage.

regardless this fix on pots needs to be considered alongside any changing of damage in order to fix a future imbalance.

[ProFF7]

As I told, OSI accuracy is not necessary. Ill just leave it to the staff to decide what is balanced. In my opinion, 20ish damage would be ok and balanced, but what balance is there in wasting 100 skill points for 10ish dmg pots as it is now?

[prohunter33]

I think balance is an issue that should be discussed. I was simply making a comparison of what it takes to obtain that type of damage. Comparing two things with similar delay time and damage seems like a valid argument.

There will be even less diversity in templates if they change the damage of alchemy to match that of OSI. Every template will have alchemy because the disadvantage of not having it would be to great.

[ProFF7]

Its like comparing pears and apples. You cant kill anyone just with 100 points of alchemy skill and explosion pots every 3 seconds, even if they did 25ish dmg like in OSI. with magery and eval you CAN kill cause you can chain curse + explosion + energy bolt/flamestrike + poison + whatever in between combos, you can do in fact a LOT more of concentrated damage and disruption in 3 seconds than you can do with a single pot, so your argument comparing just the damages is pointless.

Also, you dont take into account that unlike magery, explotion potions can be very dangerous to the user, as they backfire a lot, unlike magery. everyone who has used them knows it.

Also, im very aware of this kind of doomsaying. "Oh no, if staff implements X everyone will use X and it will ruin the shard". This argument is as old as UO and there is not a single online game where I havnt seen this nonsense. before ML was implemented I got tired of hearing the same story "ML will ruin UO" etc. Learn to adapt, I say.

[prohunter33]

no its like comparing apples to apples because we are comparing one aspect of a skill to the same aspect of another skill. Would you rather me say other secondary support skills will be inferior to alchemy because of its insane damage boost.

You are right one person cant kill anyone with just alchemy and no other skills. but you have 600-620 more base skill points and i have yet to see a one v one on this shard(non duel situation). Most of the time its 3 or 4 people targeting one person get him to half life one way or another and chase him down with exp pots. Which will go from annoying to sure death when the ave. damage of per exp pot goes from 16 to 36 on a cursed target. An the instant "cast" supernova potion that deals an ave. of 30 damage at close range.

"explotion potions can be very dangerous to the user, as they backfire a lot", I guess it depends what program your using for your pot macro. But with easyuo a simple target range check is a great way to prevent that.

*edited*
So for the fun of it i decided to write a few scripts just to test how hard it it was to, 1 create a "safe" explosion pot macro, and 2 make a high damage combo script with potions both in EasyUO.

The explosion pot macro took about 15 minutes to write from scratch. It has both an automatic abort option and a manual onhotkey option. Every possible reason for a pot hitting the thrower could be countered to make it "safe"

The other one i made and was playing around with involves greater conflagration potions and supernova which if the numbers get changed to match OSI will deal a minimum of 60 unavoidable damage on a cursed target if you get 1 tile from the target. You cant hit yourself with them and they are instant unlike explosion pots.

[rubberDucks]

no its like comparing apples to apples because we are comparing one aspect of a skill to the same aspect of another skill. Would you rather me say other secondary support skills will be inferior to alchemy because of its insane damage boost.

You are right one person cant kill anyone with just alchemy and no other skills. but you have 600-620 more base skill points and i have yet to see a one v one on this shard(non duel situation). Most of the time its 3 or 4 people targeting one person get him to half life one way or another and chase him down with exp pots. Which will go from annoying to sure death when the ave. damage of per exp pot goes from 16 to 36 on a cursed target. An the instant "cast" supernova potion that deals an ave. of 30 damage at close range.

"explotion potions can be very dangerous to the user, as they backfire a lot", I guess it depends what program your using for your pot macro. But with easyuo a simple target range check is a great way to prevent that.

*edited*
So for the fun of it i decided to write a few scripts just to test how hard it it was to, 1 create a "safe" explosion pot macro, and 2 make a high damage combo script with potions both in EasyUO.

The explosion pot macro took about 15 minutes to write from scratch. It has both an automatic abort option and a manual onhotkey option. Every possible reason for a pot hitting the thrower could be countered to make it "safe"

The other one i made and was playing around with involves greater conflagration potions and supernova which if the numbers get changed to match OSI will deal a minimum of 60 unavoidable damage on a cursed target if you get 1 tile from the target. You cant hit yourself with them and they are instant unlike explosion pots.

Exactly what I was speaking of. Why pursue OSI accuracy when OSI really messed things up with that. You only have to look at how many times Enhance pots/ Alchemy and other things were reworked on OSI cause of balance issues.

Next we go into the issues of scripting. On a server where scripting is allowed certain problems arise. As Prohunter said anyone with a good script can toss them perfectly and avoid self harm. I'm going to go off a limb and say that there's a good amount of scripters here that would be able to make a nice explode script.

Maybe a bump in damage is due for alchemy, but not the full damage that is on OSI.

At some points you have to wonder whether OSI accuracy is greater then simple logic and fun. In fact if i'm not mistaken this is why there is a variety of custom things in terms of PvP.

[ProFF7]

no its like comparing apples to apples because we are comparing one aspect of a skill to the same aspect of another skill. Would you rather me say other secondary support skills will be inferior to alchemy because of its insane damage boost.

You are right one person cant kill anyone with just alchemy and no other skills. but you have 600-620 more base skill points and i have yet to see a one v one on this shard(non duel situation). Most of the time its 3 or 4 people targeting one person get him to half life one way or another and chase him down with exp pots. Which will go from annoying to sure death when the ave. damage of per exp pot goes from 16 to 36 on a cursed target. An the instant "cast" supernova potion that deals an ave. of 30 damage at close range.

"explotion potions can be very dangerous to the user, as they backfire a lot", I guess it depends what program your using for your pot macro. But with easyuo a simple target range check is a great way to prevent that.

*edited*
So for the fun of it i decided to write a few scripts just to test how hard it it was to, 1 create a "safe" explosion pot macro, and 2 make a high damage combo script with potions both in EasyUO.

The explosion pot macro took about 15 minutes to write from scratch. It has both an automatic abort option and a manual onhotkey option. Every possible reason for a pot hitting the thrower could be countered to make it "safe"

The other one i made and was playing around with involves greater conflagration potions and supernova which if the numbers get changed to match OSI will deal a minimum of 60 unavoidable damage on a cursed target if you get 1 tile from the target. You cant hit yourself with them and they are instant unlike explosion pots.

Comparing ONE single aspect of one skill against another is silly. So the healing skill is worthless because it does 0 damage? 100 points in spellweaving are worthless because it has almost no direct damage capability? is 100 tactics superior to 100 magery and 120 eval just because it can do more damage in 3 seconds with 45 damage AIs than you can do with a flamestrike? youre using phalacies and biased arguments.

Yeah you can make a script that range checks for targets, that throws the pot away or at another target if original target is out of range. You might as well make a script that autodrinks pots under certain parameters, uses bandages, uses pouch if paralyzed and mainly makes you very hard to kill (oh wait most ppl do that here already) and if youre so fond of scripts, you can make a artificial AI that plays UO instead of you. Extensive automation and use of scripts already hurts enought the quality of PvP here. In my opinion youre scared of the possibility of 5 people being able to kill you while chasing you and breaking thru all your automated survival scripts. How about nerfing dismount? so almost nobody can get killed. Also nerf mage spells, nerf bows (I mean, nerf them more), and nerf armor ignore so its impossible to kill someone. But please leave the wolf form mode alone, thats perfectly balanced and almost no one uses it [/sarcasm] , that way we have a server where it is impossible to kill some1 1v1 and you need at least 10 vs 1 (with dismount).

Seriously doomsayers like you are always scared of introducing news things and always exagerate things to seem like if they were introduced, it would be the end of the world and all the balance of evil and good would be broken etc etc




PS: 60 unavoidable damage with just a conflag and supernova? seriously, I want what you are smoking. In the past I have played in a shard where EP was caped at 120 and didnt get anywhere near that damage, even with corpseskin, unless target has really bad resists.

[prohunter33]

60 unavoidable damage with just a conflag and supernova? seriously, I want what you are smoking. In the past I have played in a shard where EP was caped at 120 and didnt get anywhere near that damage, even with corpseskin, unless target has really bad resists.

if ur at 1 tile with the conflag potion it drops the fields instantly. Meaning the target will instantly take 9-12 damage vs 60fire and then to run out you would have to run thru atleast 2 more of the fire field tiles which will trigger the damage again making it 27-36 damage. And the Supernova potion does 29-32 damage at one tile and also instant. So an average of 62 damage to be a lil more accurate.

So i hope i broke it down enough for a simply mind like yours to grasp.

Yeah you can make a script that range checks for targets, that throws the pot away or at another target if original target is out of range. You might as well make a script that autodrinks pots under certain parameters, uses bandages, uses pouch if paralyzed and mainly makes you very hard to kill (oh wait most ppl do that here already) and if youre so fond of scripts, you can make a artificial AI that plays UO instead of you. Extensive automation and use of scripts already hurts enought the quality of PvP here. In my opinion youre scared of the possibility of 5 people being able to kill you while chasing you and breaking thru all your automated survival scripts.

So let me get this straight you are once again proving your previous arguments invalid.

explotion potions can be very dangerous to the user, as they backfire a lot, unlike magery. everyone who has used them knows it.

TBH you know nothing about me the only time I will script in PvP is to prove a point and force a fix of something that is obviously broken. It has nothing to do with the fear of death in a video game, it has everything to do with further decreasing the skill it takes to be good at this game and in return takes away a large part of what makes UO fun.

But please leave the wolf form mode alone, thats perfectly balanced and almost no one uses it [/sarcasm]

maybe you should look into the animal form changes on OSI. It was a while ago that they changed it so the forms are effected by dismount.